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linkenski

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A member registered Apr 20, 2018

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Hi, Loadingue. I was directed here by other modding peeps, because they thought we were dealing with similar things in terms of modding Mass Effect. I've been working on the Your Choices Matter Mod (unreleased) for the original ME3 for two years, and I had some thoughts reading this, and a suggestion too.

I think almost all of what you wrote is on point, and that's also how I've read the dialogue system the whole time. ME1 is a bit of a smoke-and-mirrors result and we've known that for a while. That being said, I actually do some of those stunts myself when modding more dialogue option into ME3 (because I was not okay with the autodialogue vs choice flow) and I have seen roughly speaking a good 30% express irritation with how ME3 came to be a bit too on rails and "essentialize" the system.

The idea of where things fit and what its meaning is on the wheel, I totally agree with, and I think your mod is pretty stellar for finally picking out those magic tricks and putting things where it would actually be if it was consistent. The only "rule" I think I would dispute is the idea that lines that lead to further comments should always be on the left side.

I believe other than "making choices" that the fundamental point of the Conversation Wheel is to put the player into the character's head, and BioWare has often said that the system is like "What Shepard thinks before saying it". When it comes to Paragon/Renegade Action (right side) responses vs Inquiry (Left side) to me the distinction is intention for instance, I took some beta-dialogue in ME3 and restored into a renegade (action) line. This prompts about a 1 minute extended conversation, but the choice is "I don't like her" (or, I've made it that way for tonal reasons). While there is paragon vs renegade on the left side, the act of suddenly throwing an accusation based on someone you don't really know yet is very blunt. While the renegade-investigates are typically more loaded-gun-esque it isn't often like typical renegade, which is basically a hard statement, like "Don't talk to me," or "I don't like X", and the point is to drive natural conversation from what you're thinking.

Shepard's intent to say "I don't like her already." doesn't have the intention of leading into an answer, but the recepient decides that it does through their reaction. So you have to distinguish between when Shepard's response is targeting an inquiry and when it is simply being blunt or matter-of-fact, and allow conversations to unexpectedly contain revealing details exclusive to either tone. The player isn't meant to have full control over the meta of conversation through the dialogue wheel, because then it can start to feel like everything is predictable.

I have very fond memories of talking to Ashley (racist remarks aside) in ME1 because I felt that, the branching dialogue of each line, including right-side choices, often led to truly unique commentary. The most expansive stuff comes from the left side of the wheel still, but there was an even flow of her reacting to your statements and you asking her about things, which could really prolong the conversation or it could shorten it, and it's all depending on who she is in relation to how you act.

So, that's what I wanted to add to it. I don't know if you see reason in that. The point I think is, it's important also design the choice layout based on Shepard's intent, not just how it looks in the conversation tree.

The other thing I wanted to bring up, is regarding your mentioning loosening up the conversation cinematics a bit as an extension of this.

In the modding server I go to we already had wet dreams about taking "potential for LE modding" based on some of the lessons we have from my time working on YCM, and another mod called Take Earth Back, in which I animated full conversations with the dialogue system. You can check some of that here: 

I animated these two with some additional passes (and improvement since these videos) from other modding community members, giving thoughtful critique to the first look and stuff.

Now, I'm pretty SWAMPED in my own mod, but we actually talked about the potential of an LE1 mod that is along the lines of a "ME1 Re-cut" or something, in which, as with your mod, we take out the fake replies (or optionally, as a user-choice on install. You can do that.) and then we really focus on beefing that game up as much as we can, to a more ME2-esque level. Adding some motion to the cameras, more gestures on characters, and finding the visual inspiration in all those evocative UNC side-quests.

I do have a soft-spot for ME1 as it is, basic as it can be, but I wouldn't mind a mod that goes in-depth with "upgrading" the cinematic/conversation experience of ME1. It's too big of a committment for me right now to "main" such a mod, but I would gladly provide pointers, and I also can help here and there on things, and I know someone who is IMO really talented with cinematography, who can also provide great feedback.

Your mod is awesome, and the idea of further enhancing the game is exactly what LE1 needs.

- Lunkensko#4728